matrix 2 spoilers

[merrick]

***WARNING***

***WARNING***

***Do not read this if you have not seen the second matrix movie and are going to. this might ruin it***

Here is my take on the architect scene. I don't have it totally figured out and might have some things wrong so if you have a different opinion let me know.

I think the architect basically told neo that when he created the perfect world, people rejected it. So then he created the imperfect world and while it worked better, it was not universally accepted by the pod people(humans in the powersorce pods). He, the architect, could not figure out why not and a lesser program(the oracle) figured out a way to make 99% of the people accept it.

The method the oracle discovered was to give people the choice to accept the matrix or not to. Now, the pod people did not have to be consciously aware of the choice but it had to be there. However since there was a choice some people would accept it. Thus the anomoly. That is also why the machines let zion exist. So people who rejected the matrix would be able to leave.

However this causes a problem. As people leave the matrix, they can convince other people to leave the matrix, and thus the anomoly escalates and more and more people escape.

Thus at a certain interval, the machines destroy zion, (which they have done 5 times) and make the humans start over from scratch.

Neo's exact role in this is unclear. He is definately the signal to the machines to reset the system,(destroy zion and make the humans start over) I think he is an anomoly and not planned but i am not sure. He is needed by the machines to give humans the choice but I think in more a metaphysical way than not.

I am still confused about the next part. The architect tells neo he has two options. 1 is to tell the machines to fuck off and thus break the system. this is bad. It will cause all the pod people to reject the system and thus die. and since the machines are destroying zion it will mean the end of the human race. but the machines will lose their powersource and suffer greatly but not go extinct. 2 is to reinsert his code?? into the matrix and allow for another iteration of the pattern. and i think he will get 23 other people out of the matrix to start zion with again.

i am not sure which choice neo took but i think it was option 1. but then why did the machines kill trinity if it would tempt him so? so maybe he took 2. i guess i need to see it again.

oh and i am also not sure that the oracle is a rouge program but she might be.

i think all this was aluded to in the first movie when morpheus mentioned how back at the beginning of zion there was a man who could remake the matrix as he sees fit. but it changes the timeline of the movie greatly.

Anyone have another take on the scene or have something to add?


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***/WARNING***

[overhung]

darhhh... which way did he go, which way did he go... i just flat out lost the architect's thread of logic. Your explanation sounds pretty damned kosher.

[SikMonkey]

Neo took option one. Apparantly, all the other "ones" before him took option two though. I think that all the stuff with agent Smith was not planned however. It was not meant for Smith to become a rogue program at all and that's why this will be the end of the Matrix. Oh, did you stay to see the trailer for Revolutions after the credits rolled? I didn't, but I downloaded it to my computer the next day.

Mj

[Horatio Felacio]

i don't think the oracle was the one who made the imperfect program. i could be wrong, but i think that is what neo said to the architect, but then the architect said it wasn't the oracle. i think she is just a rogue.

what was the deal in the end where neo pulled out some jedi shit and killed those spider looking robots that were coming after them? also, did zion get destroyed yet? or just a few ships that were making a counterattack to the robots?

[merrick]

no, i don't think zion got destroyed yet. i think there is going to be big fight in the next movie.

hmm, i think you are right that the oracle is not the one who figured it out but rather a rouge program. also i think it is evident that mr. smith is the red herring. i think he is the one. that part of neo got imprinted on him. of course though, if he destroys the matrix all the pod people will die... i think.

i was discussing the purpose of neo more with some friends and we hit on something amusing. Neo was allowed to have the ability to reshape the matrix as he sees fit and is eventually given the choice of whether to destroy it or not. that is the key choice that the humans need. he is the one who gets to make the choice. just like the machines underneath zion, the humans need the option to destroy the matrix, so they have a sense of control over the situation, to be willing accept it. neo provides control over the system.

of course the next question is whether it is really a choice at all if the other option is death. but i suspect so since many humans have gone done saying, "live free or die." but it also makes an argument for free will being an illusion...

[SikMonkey]

Hey Ho,
I was talking to my fiance and she seems to think that either Persephone transferred some code to Neo through the lipstick she put on OR he got it from agent Smith (since the agents had some control over the sentinels) when they did their little dance at the end of the last one.

Mj

[MAT]

You are partially right. I think that their are actually two layers to the matrix. It seemed to me that the humans that rejected the 1st matrix were actually incerted into a second matrix, which they believe is the real world with zion and the sentinals. How else would agent smith have been able to transfer himself into that one human and go through the phone lines to zion? Smith is only a program and can't live outside a computer. Also, this would explain for Neo controlling the sentinals at the end. He said that he could feel them;I assume this is how he felt or saw the code while plugged into the matrix. It was this reallization of the second layer of the matrix that put him in the comma. I think that is because he is now trully awake, in the real world.

Also, on the choice he made at the architects. The first choice appealed heavily to human emotion, saving trinity and having hope. I know they talked about that somewhere else in the movie. The second was a very mechanical thought out choice, that ensured 23 people would be allive. Unlike the other Neos he chose the first which was a very emotional human choice.

[merrick]

Yea I thought of the second matrix idea. but i am not sure. it would explain those two happenings but i don't think so. i think that agent smith is essentially a consciousness that co-opts other consciousness' he is a program that is running on the human mind. in a sense he possessed that guy.

and i think neo is not fully human. i think he is part rouge program and thus has some level of control over things in the system even when he is not fully aware of being in it himself.

but it could go either way. i don't see any hints for one or the other. anyone have any other explanations for those two problems?

[SikMonkey]

Yeah, I don't think Smith took Bane over, he just kind of infected Bane's mind with a command to kill Neo. Also, has anyone seen any spoilers for Revolutions? I am going crazy looking for them. I am one of those people who likes to know what's going to happen so I don't sit around driving myself crazy trying to predict it.

Mj

[Horatio Felacio]

the 2nd matrix idea would explain why neo is in a coma. he woke up in the 3rd world (whatever that will be) and hasn't transfered back to the 2nd matrix.

i think smith did take over or possessed what's-his-names body. when neo "imprinted" himself on smith in the last one and because of that smith claims that neo "has set him free". i'm not sure exactly what that means. maybe smith has gained a feature to encode humans brains or something. or maybe smith is a rogue pod person that has been woke up.