FA's revisited

[redpointron]

r.r.......that hurts...cuts real bad man.

i'm sorry, yasmeen's post made me do it. but, in truth, i was just hoping to be part of the pig poo on several of your masterpieces.

if it makes you feel any better, i will change my name to redpoint remora.

btw, j-rock, nice post.

regards.

r.r.

[RRO]

I grew up thinking that FA meant, at the very least, you actually sent the route, whether TR or 52nd go.

But what I am hearing now is, FA has very little to do with actual climbing, and more to do with a pajama party at the base.

thats how it is man, you seem to be the one questioning it all the time.

lets break it down
first dude on the fa list. that dude rock scrambled the crumblies before any other chuffer did from the ground to the top without falling on lead. top ropes do not count, hanging does not count. sack up, dont fall, clip the chains, done.

anyone else listed after did not send the route first. their involvement probably varies from belaying, loading the bolt bag, carrying the rack, cleaning the pitch, having rock after rock trundled down on them,carrying the drill, putting anchors in or quite possibly a slow hand job on a cold winter morning. i dont know, i wasnt there. but if i list anymore new routes i will always continue to list people if they have helped a lot with the route or just made the day that much brighter to be outside.

[pigsteak]

"thats THE smartest thing i have heard you say, ever. but apparantly you must really care or it wouldnt get brought up every week............"

re-read me butt chunks. I never said I didn't care. au contraire..I do care. I am honest enough with myself to admit that. But when folks get bent out of shape, it tells me they also have unresolved issues concerning the discussion.

if there is no consistency in the term, then I vote we do away with it. hell, I also submit that red tags are bogus.

Allah, Rockman, Powers, Lurkist, SCIN and all you other current and past FA's....I'd love more feedback besides me and donut boy sparring.

rockman, did you list many people on "all that glitters"?

[RRO]

RRO, does it have to be beer after, or can it be beer during? if it is beer during does that mean it isn't an FA? Just wondering. Please--- help illuminate--- shine your light of knowledge on this quandry for me.

beer, especially from you dana will be great anytime during the process. my light of knowledge is more like a burnt out refrigerator light, it may be working or it may not be, either way is fine. for each beer you drop off you will be added to 1 sport climb. for every 3 beers you will be added to a trad route. for bourbon you will be added to pigdicks routes as the fa and he will be deleted.

[RRO]

and pigstaint , looks like you are the pot calling the kettle black, again
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... hp?id=1916

[pigsteak]

ouch man..you know that is low...baby Jesus should NOT get credit on that line.

OK, so I think I hear y'all chuffers loud and clear. the first person listed is the true FA, and all other names listed just mean we have a lot of friends....I can play with that.

I promise to never start this thread again....for at least two weeks.

dana, I am a whore. I can be bought for cheaper than some bourbon. don't fall for his ploy to get free booze.

[SCIN]

It's a personal thing man. Whatever you feel like doing really. Kris and I listed each other as FA's if we bagged a line that we'd been working together even if we were a few days apart from each other with the sends. Why? Because we both worked on figuring the moves out together and that's part of a first ascent.

[ynot]

Congratulations Piggy! You have grown as a person.

[pigsteak]

OK SCIN, I can completely go with that. Now, if one of you hadn't sent..would both people go on the FA? Or does your version of this story mean all listed parties had to send the route, or at the very least work on sending the route?

I am truly not trying to start shit. From talking to many of you on this subject, I can honestly say I have heard a dozen different meanings for the term.

I am just here to suggest that maybe a different term needs to be used when listing those who helped on a route, but who didn't actually "send".

RRO, I typically use "equipper" when someone sends a line of mine, and I know that there is no way I will ever do it in this lifetime. Even if I have given the thing 25 burns, it feels wierd to be included on the FA if I have not done it clean.

If we as a community continue to water down the language, in the coming years they will lose all meaning. Like when you hear a newbie say "I sent C Sharp today", yet you saw them standing on bolts and hanging all over it. Don't you feel an obligation to nicely explain to them the meaning of "send"?

[pigsteak]

thanks ynot....I think