Felt like that needed to be said again.RRO wrote:....climbing IS NOT owed to us, its not free and it not a constitutional right . all i can say is get involved or dont bitch when your favorite route/crag is closed.
Climbing at Torrent
Donations to Muir are never solicited but are gratefully accepted from those who realize that it takes a great deal physical effort and money to build and maintain the infrastructure required to offer a free climbing venue of this size. We continue to welcome climbers who do not feel inclined to make a monetary donation or volunteer effort. We are pleased with the donations during the first three years of MV’s existance – especially generous donations of labor and technical expertise as well as money.
What we are not pleased about is the blatent lack of respect for MV’s rules and guidelines by many climbing visitors. Here is an actual quote of a recent written message to Liz and me from a well-recognized climber at Muir: "[We] climb bec traditionally there are no rules involved in climbing. We climb to get away from a week of "organized" rules and management so it is an obvious turnoff to have to deal with the same shit on the weekends..."
One example: Last Sunday, six out of six dogs we saw in the valley were off leashes.
Want to see Muir stay open to the general public? Please read and follow our rules and guidelines. And, remind others who just don’t seem to get it.
Thank you,
Liz and Rick
owners
What we are not pleased about is the blatent lack of respect for MV’s rules and guidelines by many climbing visitors. Here is an actual quote of a recent written message to Liz and me from a well-recognized climber at Muir: "[We] climb bec traditionally there are no rules involved in climbing. We climb to get away from a week of "organized" rules and management so it is an obvious turnoff to have to deal with the same shit on the weekends..."
One example: Last Sunday, six out of six dogs we saw in the valley were off leashes.
Want to see Muir stay open to the general public? Please read and follow our rules and guidelines. And, remind others who just don’t seem to get it.
Thank you,
Liz and Rick
owners
6 out of 6 off leashes. That sad. Respect people, respect for the land you use. Its really a simple rule that shouldnt have to be said over and over.
Leave the dogs at home sometimes , especially if you go to a crowded place that has offical dog rules. If you have to take your dog to the crag then go somewhere "dog friendly" and less crowded. We have a dog and he is pretty much our child but we leave him home more often than not. I know this is not possible for some people traveling to climb and if its not then maybe Muir is not the place for you to climb and if you have to go to Muir and you have to bring your dog leave it on a damn leash like the land owners request. Simple rules that if followed will keep areas open, and if not followed........ well I think we all will see what happens when simple rules cant be followed.
As I said before, I think most people on this board and who have been around for a long time do follow the rules for the most part. If we want these areas to stay open then we all have to be involved and help keep the "rules" in place. If you dont like "rules" in climbing then go off the beaten path and hunt obscure climbs like I do.
Maybe we should open up a dog lot for people to leave their dog when they go to places where the dogs are restricted.
Leave the dogs at home sometimes , especially if you go to a crowded place that has offical dog rules. If you have to take your dog to the crag then go somewhere "dog friendly" and less crowded. We have a dog and he is pretty much our child but we leave him home more often than not. I know this is not possible for some people traveling to climb and if its not then maybe Muir is not the place for you to climb and if you have to go to Muir and you have to bring your dog leave it on a damn leash like the land owners request. Simple rules that if followed will keep areas open, and if not followed........ well I think we all will see what happens when simple rules cant be followed.
As I said before, I think most people on this board and who have been around for a long time do follow the rules for the most part. If we want these areas to stay open then we all have to be involved and help keep the "rules" in place. If you dont like "rules" in climbing then go off the beaten path and hunt obscure climbs like I do.
Maybe we should open up a dog lot for people to leave their dog when they go to places where the dogs are restricted.
http://www.redriveroutdoors.com
If you need to contact me , email me. Less Internet, less stress
If you need to contact me , email me. Less Internet, less stress
I'm in HUGE opposition to all the political rules and crap that have crept into climbing as of late....
BUT.....
Private land is private land. If a landowner is courteous enough to allow climbing on their property, then follow their rules. Period. There shouldn't even be discussion.
The sad fact is that a large percentage of climbers are idiots who don't give a damn.
That said, I'll gladly climb on FS closed routes.....
BUT.....
Private land is private land. If a landowner is courteous enough to allow climbing on their property, then follow their rules. Period. There shouldn't even be discussion.
The sad fact is that a large percentage of climbers are idiots who don't give a damn.
That said, I'll gladly climb on FS closed routes.....
"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken."
-Tyler Durden
www.odubmusic.com
-Tyler Durden
www.odubmusic.com
Yep and rock climbing is banned on state parks in Kentucky. So sad.domtizr wrote:sorry, looks like gunks is state park. The "preserve" part confused me.
So again folks, realize that climbing isn't free.
Jesus only knows that she tries too hard. She's only trying to keep the sky from falling.
-Everlast
-Everlast
i disagree that climbing isn't free.. but only slightly. and mostly based on technicalities 
anyway, i still hope this is just a big melodramatic fit that ends up leading to more caution than restriction.zwan in endless summer wrote:freedom isn't free
unless you learn how to give
and great loves will one day have to part -smashing pumpkins