Climbing at Torrent

Post by **Spragwa** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:34 am

Oh and Paul, you are NOT the only one who parked across the road. Please don't put all of that on yourself. You were operating under a false impression is all.

Post by **allah** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:40 am

You are right about that sprag, but the thing is that mark is taking his frustrations about his business out on the climbers and saying that we are the problem. i just doint think it would be cool to have rocktoberfest at marks and then he goes and closes climbing the next week. very hipacritical (spell) if you ask me. there is alot more i would like to say but i dont feel it is right, sorry im just really frustrated, you pat someone on the back and then they stab you, not cool

Post by **dyno_heaven** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:45 am

unfortunately the climbers that didnt do a thing to help him and provide incentive to stay open are the ones who have ruined it for those that did. its not that he doesnt appreciate the climbers that abide by the rules, theres just too many that dont

Post by **TankAzz** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:17 am

it sucks too, because i know this comes up every time this discussion begins, but the people that are most likely the problem are probably not on this forum very often... i guess that's where we all step in and encourage others to be respectful, but honestly i don't think i would ever feel comfortable telling another climber they needed to donate money. pooping in mark's back yard, however, given the availability of a porta-john, is a different story.

Post by **randomboulder** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:13 pm

That's sad news if its true.

Did someone take down the $2 donation sign on Sunday? We were there fairly early on sunday and paid up. Then later in the day I heard someone was reminding people to pay because the owner was getting mad. The weird thing was that when we left that afternoon the sign for the donations was taken down.

Post by **domtizr** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:02 pm

Has anyone ever looked into having a system in place where there is an entrance fee to a private area-- like at the gunks, and you get a sticker showing you paid for that day. Is this possible in Ky?

Post by **Andrew** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:24 pm

Liability is a problem with a fee system.

Post by **allah** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:56 pm

Mark just dosent want too. he has put him self in a finacial hole that is going to be extremely hard to get out of. i dont know what he is going to do, but closing climbing isnt the answer that is for sure. there are ways to enfore things and regulate parking but he dosent care about anything of that nature anymore. if mark truely appreciated the climbers he would have a meeting with some of the locals and RRGCC people to figure out how to regulate some things. he is just going to take the money we as climbers give him this weekend and then cut us off. i hope thats not the case but we'll see.

Post by **Meadows** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:55 pm

Andrew wrote:Liability is a problem with a fee system.

Yeah, but wouldn't insurance for a via ferrata cover climbing as well?

Post by **RRO** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:40 pm

guided climbing yes, not individuals with their own gear and climbing on their own. the via ferrata is a pay for play activity. the general public cannot use their own gear or instruction. if he did make a charge for climbing at his property he would have to get insurance and that would break him fast, or anyone for that matter. i cant begin to imagine what an insurance policy like that would cost.

insurance policies for outfitters is insane to deal with, truly a thorn in any guide service side. some will cover climbing ,some will cover mountain biking ,some will cover a via ferrata but none will cover all and some wont cover anything if you offer the other sevices.

i for one support mark with whatever he decides to do and will continue to eat dinner there 2-3 times a week. i hope everyone still does. climbing at torrent has been a blessing, remember when it was closed not so long ago. im surprised he has keept it open to the public for as long as he has. its a huge hassle to him. imagine the world coming to your backyard to play for free, i wouldnt want to deal with it. and in all honesty % wise climbers do not bring him that much business. he makes much more on cabins, large groups such as boy scouts and general tourists. mark has to do what he feels best for his family and his business. im sure there are things behind the scene that none of us know about.

he gave the general community a chance, we blew it. im sure most people on this board and climbers that have been around awhile did try and did make a short term difference but the red is growing so fast and torrent is so popular it was destined to fail. we as a group think its our right to be able to climb where ever we want whenever we want, thats just not the case.

i hope that this issue makes everyone see that support is needed for private land owners such as RRGCC and Muir, they need our whole hearted support. if climbers own it, it wont be closed . even that statement has many what ifs, look at arena and oil crag. but areas like that are our only "guranted" climbing options and thats where the general public can help the most. also make your voice heard with the state and national forest. changes are happening people. its up to us to fix it.

climbing IS NOT owed to us, its not free and it not a constitutional right . all i can say is get involved or dont bitch when your favorite route/crag is closed.