While everyone is ultimately responsible for the decisions they make in life - who you marry, what route you take to work, did you tie in safely - climbing is still a team (partner) effort. And as a belayer, it's my responsibility to do everything I can to get both of us home without incident, which includes checking my climber's harness, knot, back-up, enough draws, a sling, whatever might be needed on a climb. The only thing I don't feel responsible for is making sure they wiped their butt.
If I didn't tie-in correctly and fell I would blame myself; but that should not make the belayer feel any better for not doing his part. Isn't the job of belayer to make sure you don't deck? Wouldn't this include pre-climb preparation? Wouldn't you tell your climber if they missed a bolt, Z-clipped or were so far off route that they're risking a deck?
Guess it's all in the definitions, the difference between fault and responsibility.
Fallen Climber
In every how-to book on climbing, the belayer is supposed to check the knot of the climber before the climber gets on the rock. Therefore, it's both people's fault - the climbers for not tying in correctly and the belayer's for not checking.
There is a reason we use redundancy in climbing. This is just another part of it. For those that don't have their belayer check their knot or use the verbals ("On belay/Belay on! Climbing/Climb On), why do you bother using two anchors, backing up your rappell, etc?
There is a reason we use redundancy in climbing. This is just another part of it. For those that don't have their belayer check their knot or use the verbals ("On belay/Belay on! Climbing/Climb On), why do you bother using two anchors, backing up your rappell, etc?
Sarcasm is a tool the weak use to avoid confrontation. People with any balls just outright lie.
[quote="Meadows"]I try not to put it in my mouth now, but when I do, I hold it with just my lips.[/quote]
[quote="Meadows"]I try not to put it in my mouth now, but when I do, I hold it with just my lips.[/quote]
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Ascentionist
- Posts: 1081
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:23 pm
But what about the experienced climber who makes a bad judgement and takes a newbie out and teaches them to belay, that "belayer" forgets to double check and the climber ties an improper knot. Who is to blame?
I don't buy that climbing is a team effort in a crag setting like RRG (It SHOULD be). A lot of people just don't behave that way. I do agree that once the second leaves the ground it DOES become a team effort and SHOULD become a team effort and at that point what your partner does should be as important to you, if not more important to you for self preservation.
BUT EVEN THEN...if you use bad judgement and hook up with an incompetent partner then you made a bad choice that could get you killed.
Having said that, if you make an honest mistake and forget to tie your knot properly and your belayer doesn't double check it was an honest mistake that cost you your life and it represents natural selection hard at work.
I don't buy that climbing is a team effort in a crag setting like RRG (It SHOULD be). A lot of people just don't behave that way. I do agree that once the second leaves the ground it DOES become a team effort and SHOULD become a team effort and at that point what your partner does should be as important to you, if not more important to you for self preservation.
BUT EVEN THEN...if you use bad judgement and hook up with an incompetent partner then you made a bad choice that could get you killed.
Having said that, if you make an honest mistake and forget to tie your knot properly and your belayer doesn't double check it was an honest mistake that cost you your life and it represents natural selection hard at work.
There is no TEAM in I