My basketball coach once told me he would rather have his best player shoot a bad shot than his worst shoot an open shot.
On labor day weekend I saw 6 people on crutches and heard a bunch of injury reports from gumbies.
It might be safer for greg to solo routes he has done a million times than to let gumbies climb without guides.
So what are we to do.
BOHICA soloed
the lurkist wrote:if you think that the land owner might take a dim view of what you are about to do on his property, and his reaction my be deliterious to the community (does anyone think that the lode being closed would not be deliterious to climbing in the Red?), then maybe you should have a moment of pause and consider the ramifications of your actions. In particular, how your actions might effect others.
I know that most of us reading this forum are Red River Lifers and want what is best for the future of climbing in the Red, but for thsoe that are still grappling with this idea, it is called consideration and good judgement.
Not to rain on the parade of anyone who wants to solo. Go for it. Push your envelope of mind control, cripple yourself, deck, whatever....
Do it on Federal land. It is much harder to hold the Federal Government accountable for the poor Darwinain choices of individuals. I am pretty sure the Forest Service here in the Kentucky has more than adequately covered their ass and has had the waters tested many times concerning dumb asses dying in the Red. Solo the Legend, Table, Soul Ram, Appalaxchain Spring, etc...
"Climbing is the spice, not the meal." ~ Lurkist
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neuroshock
- Posts: 286
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:01 pm
this thread is like a chubby girl whose chest is falling out of her halter top... i don't want to watch, but somehow i can't help myself...
as an over safety-conscious worrier, i have honestly never thought much for soloing. the fact that someone climbs something difficult is impressive enough to me; for some reason soloing does not add any respect from me. as a former gymnast, the closest analogy i can come up with is, say, performing on the balance beam or uneven bars without mats underneath you (although on a much larger scale). if everything goes right, the athlete would be fine (probably even on the landing). however, something unexpected (a slip of the foot, sweaty palms), and suddenly it's a different story. the safety equipment exists for a reason. injuries happen even when all precautions are taken (similar to the whole gumby climbing thing). if someone does everything they can to be safe and still ends up breaking an ankle or something, i feel like it's not really fair to fault them, or say that they are being more unsafe than someone that solos.
further, i have not done the research (and have not done my background research on the dean potter situation), but i am guessing the reason that soloing does not cause privately owned crags to close is that people don't know about it. i can't imagine too many people would want to bear that liability. bottom line, i'm on the anti-solo train, whether you're greg or dean potter or whoever (celebrity status does nothing for me). i certainly don't expect to change anyone's minds on here (something i learn the more i post), but felt like posting anyways.
as an over safety-conscious worrier, i have honestly never thought much for soloing. the fact that someone climbs something difficult is impressive enough to me; for some reason soloing does not add any respect from me. as a former gymnast, the closest analogy i can come up with is, say, performing on the balance beam or uneven bars without mats underneath you (although on a much larger scale). if everything goes right, the athlete would be fine (probably even on the landing). however, something unexpected (a slip of the foot, sweaty palms), and suddenly it's a different story. the safety equipment exists for a reason. injuries happen even when all precautions are taken (similar to the whole gumby climbing thing). if someone does everything they can to be safe and still ends up breaking an ankle or something, i feel like it's not really fair to fault them, or say that they are being more unsafe than someone that solos.
further, i have not done the research (and have not done my background research on the dean potter situation), but i am guessing the reason that soloing does not cause privately owned crags to close is that people don't know about it. i can't imagine too many people would want to bear that liability. bottom line, i'm on the anti-solo train, whether you're greg or dean potter or whoever (celebrity status does nothing for me). i certainly don't expect to change anyone's minds on here (something i learn the more i post), but felt like posting anyways.
Courtesy of Andrew: "I don't think you will damage your escort unless she trips because she is so strung out on blow. Most people just take them to the rest area."
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gregkerzhner
- Posts: 171
- Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:09 pm
I will not justify my actions further, but I would like to provide an example
Tery Kindred (not sure if thats the proper spelling)
1. May he rest in peace
2. I dont know if any of you guys know this, but Terry Free Soloed Syncronistity
Similarities about what he did and what I did
1.Terry was a solid 5.12 climber, free soling one number grade below his level. 5.13 is also 1 number grade lower than 5.14.
2. Roadside and the motherlode are both privatley owned crags.
3. Access to Roadside has been, in all of its past, sketchier than the motherlode.
Terry has developed an immense amount of routes at the gorge, including lines at Roadside. He must have been
A. completley reckless, intending to close down the very place he helped create
B. Knowelegable of the fact that free soloing and it's consequences will not close down crags
So, to Paul, Kenny, and the rest of you that have called me so reckless, stupid, selfish, and access endangering, please go to
http://redriverclimbing.com/viewtopic.p ... 558484de63
and yell at him for the great access concern his actions are causing
Be sure to send some hate mail to Kris Hampton, Wes, and Dave Chenault
[/b]
Tery Kindred (not sure if thats the proper spelling)
1. May he rest in peace
2. I dont know if any of you guys know this, but Terry Free Soloed Syncronistity
Similarities about what he did and what I did
1.Terry was a solid 5.12 climber, free soling one number grade below his level. 5.13 is also 1 number grade lower than 5.14.
2. Roadside and the motherlode are both privatley owned crags.
3. Access to Roadside has been, in all of its past, sketchier than the motherlode.
Terry has developed an immense amount of routes at the gorge, including lines at Roadside. He must have been
A. completley reckless, intending to close down the very place he helped create
B. Knowelegable of the fact that free soloing and it's consequences will not close down crags
So, to Paul, Kenny, and the rest of you that have called me so reckless, stupid, selfish, and access endangering, please go to
http://redriverclimbing.com/viewtopic.p ... 558484de63
and yell at him for the great access concern his actions are causing
Be sure to send some hate mail to Kris Hampton, Wes, and Dave Chenault
[/b]
Roadside is owned by people that climb.
Nothing on Syncro is likely to break.
Solo your ass off - just don't do it on private land that "could" be closed down if something were to go wrong. It's really that simple.
Oh, yeah. You are really reaching in trying to justify the argument that you have been saying you aren't trying to make.
I've got an idea...since a few of you are so confident that a death by soloing won't close down access to an area, why not ask the opinion of the fine folks at Torrent how they feel about it.
Nothing on Syncro is likely to break.
Solo your ass off - just don't do it on private land that "could" be closed down if something were to go wrong. It's really that simple.
Oh, yeah. You are really reaching in trying to justify the argument that you have been saying you aren't trying to make.
I've got an idea...since a few of you are so confident that a death by soloing won't close down access to an area, why not ask the opinion of the fine folks at Torrent how they feel about it.
Victory Whip in da House. Yeah.
rhunt, no need for that. just chill out..
as for terry, he never posted pictures about it, did it when hardly anyone was around, and didn't post about it period. and to say that people didn't try to talk him out of it would be a mistake. and both of you're assumptions about what he was probably thinking are probably wrong, though i won't claim to know everything that he was considering at the time..
and, for the record, i've never called you any of those things.
as for terry, he never posted pictures about it, did it when hardly anyone was around, and didn't post about it period. and to say that people didn't try to talk him out of it would be a mistake. and both of you're assumptions about what he was probably thinking are probably wrong, though i won't claim to know everything that he was considering at the time..
and, for the record, i've never called you any of those things.
and great loves will one day have to part -smashing pumpkins