Glue-in Bolt Test Results at Muir
Is there some computer savvy person that wants to write a script for this gambling? Techno bookie? Everyone would have to pony up their money and the winners would get a bigger tax write-off.
[size=75]You are as bad as Alan, and even he hits the mark sometimes. -charlie
"Not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill[/size]
"Not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill[/size]
Just as it is obvious that a long fall on dynamic line causes less total force to the top anchor than a 10' fall due to more rope stretch, it is equally obvious that a long fall on dynanic line causes more force than clipping the anchors and lowering off draws.
The difference is, a 10' fall might not be preventable.
The difference is, a 10' fall might not be preventable.
Sarcasm is a tool the weak use to avoid confrontation. People with any balls just outright lie.
[quote="Meadows"]I try not to put it in my mouth now, but when I do, I hold it with just my lips.[/quote]
[quote="Meadows"]I try not to put it in my mouth now, but when I do, I hold it with just my lips.[/quote]
Dude, you are funny for sure. I am amused and somewhat honored that would would spend so much time on a post to me.
Just how many intentional whips do you think are happening out there? It isn't all that many, in fact I would say the number is trivial and statistically irrelevant compared to the overall numbers of "normal" falls. I am no engineer, or alpine climber and I haven't been climbing all that long, but I have seen thousands of falls, and if 10 or less "extra" per 1,000 cause an anchor to fail, then we should all be dead by now. Go to the lode one day during the season and count the number of falls that happen.
You have a personal grudge against something that really is a non issue, and I think you are the irresponsible one. Why not start a crusade against something that might actually be dangerous, like not stick clipping the first bolt.
Just how many intentional whips do you think are happening out there? It isn't all that many, in fact I would say the number is trivial and statistically irrelevant compared to the overall numbers of "normal" falls. I am no engineer, or alpine climber and I haven't been climbing all that long, but I have seen thousands of falls, and if 10 or less "extra" per 1,000 cause an anchor to fail, then we should all be dead by now. Go to the lode one day during the season and count the number of falls that happen.
You have a personal grudge against something that really is a non issue, and I think you are the irresponsible one. Why not start a crusade against something that might actually be dangerous, like not stick clipping the first bolt.
"There is no secret ingredient"
Po, the kung fu panda
Po, the kung fu panda
An important point here that many of you seem to be missing is that a VW, unlike a typical lead climber fall, is a deliberate and totally unnecessary stress on bolted hardware. Increasing risk to those who follow us on routes, whether we VW or wear out the anchors by lowering through them, is irresponsible.Saxman wrote:I love what Rick is doing and can't wait to see the data. To make things interesting, and no offense to Rick, I will bet $25 that the long whipper will have a lower peak force than the short fall. The money will of course go to the coaltion. As a fund raiser, more people should bet as well. Why not have some friendly fun, raise money, and enjoy some geeky science all at the same time? Anyone else want to put their money where their mouth is?
Wagering on force comparisons here is silly. Short falls on short lengths of rope will most likely produce higher peak impulse forces than long falls on long lengths of rope. So the hell what?
Some of you non-engineering types might want to look into cyclic loading.
Rick
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
My post was directed to you and everyone else who takes VWs. No personal grudge. I, and a hell of a lot of reputable, experienced climbers, gear manufacturers and engineers, simply believe you folks are irresponsible. Period.Wes wrote:Dude, you are funny for sure. I am amused and somewhat honored that would would spend so much time on a post to me... You have a personal grudge against something that really is a non issue...
Rick
_________________
When I disagree with a rational man, I
let reality be our final arbiter; if I am
right, he will learn; if I am wrong, I will;
one of us will win, but both will profit.
-Ayn Rand
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
Cool with me. I think you all are wrong, and have 15 years of sport climbing in the red and tens (hunderds?) of thouands and counting falls on my side of the coin. Not to say that bolts won't start failing left and right, but the worst ones I have seen when being repaced has much more to do with whether or not the bolt stays dry, not how many falls it has caught.
"There is no secret ingredient"
Po, the kung fu panda
Po, the kung fu panda
Cool with me too. We agree to disagree. One of many things I DO respect about you, Wes, is your post a few months ago agreeing to follow MV's policy on no VWs. Thanks.Wes wrote:Cool with me. I think you all are wrong, and have 15 years of sport climbing in the red and tens (hunderds?) of thouands and counting falls on my side of the coin. Not to say that bolts won't start failing left and right, but the worst ones I have seen when being repaced has much more to do with whether or not the bolt stays dry, not how many falls it has caught.
Rick
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
No worries, I fully support you and your decisions on what you think is best at Muir, and I have yet to break any of the rules there, and have no plans / desire to do so. I think it is hella cool what you have done there, so even if I am a pain here and over this issue, I do have plenty of respect for you, Liz, and all of team Muir.
Wes
Wes
"There is no secret ingredient"
Po, the kung fu panda
Po, the kung fu panda