Here's a suggestion. Someone could put a couple of quicklinks onto the bolt below the anchors. Then you could lower of the bolt. I wouldn't suggest TRing it from one bolt, though.
Yeah, I was looking at Oil Crack Crag and man John Bronough is one busy guy!
ledger line
(Note: Littlefeller, this response turned into a platform for general issues not directed at you. It just seemed like a good opportunity to bring it up.)
The upper band of rock at "Kampsight" buttress at Roadside is rather soft. I tend to make routes as long as I can, so most of the anchors are in this upper softer rock. It doesn't necessarily make them unsafe, but it can be problematic for anchor placements. I don't want to go up there blindly with a drill just put in more holes when they will eventally blow out. More information on the anchors' status would be appreciated. For example, did anyone try to tighten them? Were you exaggerating when you said they are only 4 inches apart? (I usually space them out much wider than the norm if the rock permits). I'm a little puzzled at how the rock could have eroded away so fast, but if that is true, then probably glue-in bolts are probably the best alternative. They are expensive, a pain in the ass to place, not particularly reliable, and I don't own any. I have not been aware of any problems with these anchors until now. I know of the crack between the anchors on All Cows Eat Grass, but that issue was addressed with an additional anchor.
Thanks Dlewis for your sentiments. I spent at least a full week of time up there just for those routes equiping them, brushing, and doing trail/base work along with other volunteers. I did it because I thought those lines would be enjoyed by many climbers, especially those seeking relatively moderate lines. I've never sought reimbursement for the cost of any hardware or equipment and I've personally spent several hundred dollars just on those routes alone. I try to use high quality hardware and take the time to camoflage all anchors. Unfortunately, most "slab" routes in the Red have significant lichens and virtually require a good brushing. For those routes at Roadside, I spent between 2-3 hours just brushing on each route. The wire brush itself is destroyed after two routes and I have to buy another. That's one reason the Red hasn't had many slab routes because brushing is an enormous unrewarding pain in the ass and many other FA'ers won't bother with them.
Now this may be seen as complaining about something I've volunteered to do, but my intent is to explain the difficulties encountered when putting up and maintaining a route. Many of you have expressed appreciation for what I and others have done and I'm grateful to you for telling me. Some of you may appreciate the problems but don't feel like you know enough about the anchors themselves to do repairs. I encourage you to get informed (it is your life, you know). If you aren't mechanically inclined, then volunteer with trails or just brushing a route. If you would like to join me sometime, just let me know, I'd love the help. For the few of you who are just critical, I'd bet you haven't put up too many routes yourself, and you should get educated as well. Then, perhaps your criticisms will be constructive.
I'm really not looking for a pat on the back or anything. I'd be thrilled if you all took what I said seriously (some of you already do) and volunteered to help in any way you can. I can post specific suggestions if you like.
Johnny
The upper band of rock at "Kampsight" buttress at Roadside is rather soft. I tend to make routes as long as I can, so most of the anchors are in this upper softer rock. It doesn't necessarily make them unsafe, but it can be problematic for anchor placements. I don't want to go up there blindly with a drill just put in more holes when they will eventally blow out. More information on the anchors' status would be appreciated. For example, did anyone try to tighten them? Were you exaggerating when you said they are only 4 inches apart? (I usually space them out much wider than the norm if the rock permits). I'm a little puzzled at how the rock could have eroded away so fast, but if that is true, then probably glue-in bolts are probably the best alternative. They are expensive, a pain in the ass to place, not particularly reliable, and I don't own any. I have not been aware of any problems with these anchors until now. I know of the crack between the anchors on All Cows Eat Grass, but that issue was addressed with an additional anchor.
Thanks Dlewis for your sentiments. I spent at least a full week of time up there just for those routes equiping them, brushing, and doing trail/base work along with other volunteers. I did it because I thought those lines would be enjoyed by many climbers, especially those seeking relatively moderate lines. I've never sought reimbursement for the cost of any hardware or equipment and I've personally spent several hundred dollars just on those routes alone. I try to use high quality hardware and take the time to camoflage all anchors. Unfortunately, most "slab" routes in the Red have significant lichens and virtually require a good brushing. For those routes at Roadside, I spent between 2-3 hours just brushing on each route. The wire brush itself is destroyed after two routes and I have to buy another. That's one reason the Red hasn't had many slab routes because brushing is an enormous unrewarding pain in the ass and many other FA'ers won't bother with them.
Now this may be seen as complaining about something I've volunteered to do, but my intent is to explain the difficulties encountered when putting up and maintaining a route. Many of you have expressed appreciation for what I and others have done and I'm grateful to you for telling me. Some of you may appreciate the problems but don't feel like you know enough about the anchors themselves to do repairs. I encourage you to get informed (it is your life, you know). If you aren't mechanically inclined, then volunteer with trails or just brushing a route. If you would like to join me sometime, just let me know, I'd love the help. For the few of you who are just critical, I'd bet you haven't put up too many routes yourself, and you should get educated as well. Then, perhaps your criticisms will be constructive.
I'm really not looking for a pat on the back or anything. I'd be thrilled if you all took what I said seriously (some of you already do) and volunteered to help in any way you can. I can post specific suggestions if you like.
Johnny
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littlefeller
- Posts: 115
- Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2003 11:26 pm
it may seem like i was being critical,but infact i was just sharing information that might keep someone from getting hurt.i love the fact that you are putting up moderate routes the red needs more.i do know what it takes to put up a route its hard work , butfrom experience i know people who put up routes dont like people fucking with them.if the bolts only need to be tightened up the the next time im at the red i will make sure i bring a wrench.
THERE WILL ALWAYS BE.
I must say I've put up exactly 2 bolts, and they are at the top of a climb at small wall because the tree that was the anchor fell. It was with a hand drill and was a pain in the rear.
I'll let you find the bolts, he he, but you'll thank me if you ever see them.
Thanks for all the hard work, Johnny B. This summer, I am going to help do more trail work. And, just generally to everyone, join the access fund and RRGCC!
I'll let you find the bolts, he he, but you'll thank me if you ever see them.
Thanks for all the hard work, Johnny B. This summer, I am going to help do more trail work. And, just generally to everyone, join the access fund and RRGCC!
John,
In all seriousness (and assuming that the line we speak of is the one directly left of C Sharp), I climbed the route not long after you had put it up and if I remember correctly, the top layer of sandstone was already starting to crack and flake away between the anchor bolts. I didn't notice the anchors being loose at the time though. I was thinking of possible solutions last night and the only thing I could think of was either lowering the anchors to the ledge below or using glue-in eye bolts, but I am not sure if either of those are viable options (as I am one of the many who don't have enough experience to go messing around with anchor bolts).
Mj
In all seriousness (and assuming that the line we speak of is the one directly left of C Sharp), I climbed the route not long after you had put it up and if I remember correctly, the top layer of sandstone was already starting to crack and flake away between the anchor bolts. I didn't notice the anchors being loose at the time though. I was thinking of possible solutions last night and the only thing I could think of was either lowering the anchors to the ledge below or using glue-in eye bolts, but I am not sure if either of those are viable options (as I am one of the many who don't have enough experience to go messing around with anchor bolts).
Mj
...quitting drinking is kinda like washing your hands after you take a crap...why start now?
A non-climbing specific cleanup, http://www.allmediastudios.com/gorge/, is this Saturday (April 26).
Johnny: Zemkat and I wouldn't mind learning what goes into a route. Let us know if you want a couple of brush monkeys, especially after May 5th (degree time).
Johnny: Zemkat and I wouldn't mind learning what goes into a route. Let us know if you want a couple of brush monkeys, especially after May 5th (degree time).
Rhino and I went up to Ledger Line and checked the anchors. Of course, there were a ton of climbers there who had done it and/or were on it. None of them even looked at the anchors or thought anything about it. I begged for a TR to go check them out. They didn't look too bad, but I agree they were pretty closely spaced (like about 4 inches...Doh!) and perhaps a seam was starting to work its way between the bolts. I tried tightening them and the one on the right started spinning. The hole behind the hanger was somewhat blown out at the lip. As I loosened the hanger a bit, I could wiggle the bolt somewhat. It appeared that only the flange at the end of the bolt was doing the work, but the one in the middle wasn't engaged thus allowing the bolt to flex off the back flange. My assessment was that it was safe for now, but perhaps a time bomb.
I removed them and repositioned the anchors to the left in better rock using one Fixe ring and one chain with a Fixe ring on the end (I'll bet my paycheck someone steals the ring within a year). The arrangement puts a little twist on the rope when you lower, but it's at least gumby proof. Boy those routes are getting a ton of traffic! There's hardly any suspect holds left.
I removed them and repositioned the anchors to the left in better rock using one Fixe ring and one chain with a Fixe ring on the end (I'll bet my paycheck someone steals the ring within a year). The arrangement puts a little twist on the rope when you lower, but it's at least gumby proof. Boy those routes are getting a ton of traffic! There's hardly any suspect holds left.