POTENTIAL CLOSURE OF TORRENT FALLS CRAG
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Ascentionist
- Posts: 1081
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:23 pm
mailing address
Dear Mark:
It is terrible what you are going through and too bad some climbers ruin it for everyone else. Thank you for reconsidering. I have only climbed Torrent once but am anxious to return, it is beautiful (much thanks to your work) and some great climbs. I did not see your donation box and would like to mail you a donation, and will have other climbers here pitch in. Please send your mailing address. I will also post your rules at local gyms. Thank you again.
smclimber from Chicago.
It is terrible what you are going through and too bad some climbers ruin it for everyone else. Thank you for reconsidering. I have only climbed Torrent once but am anxious to return, it is beautiful (much thanks to your work) and some great climbs. I did not see your donation box and would like to mail you a donation, and will have other climbers here pitch in. Please send your mailing address. I will also post your rules at local gyms. Thank you again.
smclimber from Chicago.
Here's Torrent's mailing address. I don't think Mark frequents this site.
http://www.torrentfalls.com/contact.html
http://www.torrentfalls.com/contact.html
Does he have a strange bear claw like appendage protruding from his neck? He kep petting it.
A little Peer Pressure can go a long way
Fellow climbers:
How many spectacular crags are we going to have to lose before we get it through our thick skulls that climbing at the Red is a privilege, and not a right? Although the quantity of rock in the Red appears boundless, the number of crags at the caliber the likes of Torrent Falls are excruciatingly limited.
Mark has been so kind as to give us all a second (or third or fourth ...) chance and what's more, under the auspice of following a few very easy to follow, common sense rules. It is critical that we not only obey these "new" rules, but pressure our fellow climbers to abide by Mark's wishes as well.
Signs are great, postings on websites are fabulous, and flyers are helpful for getting this important word out to the uneducated masses; however there is nothing like peer pressure to keep us in line. A little embarrassment goes a long way and in my opinion is critical to keep this jewel of a crag open to all climbers.
Education can come in many forms. Peer pressure is a strong and highly motivating force. Social norms at this crag need to be realigned with the property owner's wishes.
The next time that you see or hear someone violating the rules, simply stop what you are doing and ask them politely to correct their actions. When we purposefully or inadvertently act like children and one of our peers in turn responds by treating us like a child, by publicly correcting our behavior, it has a profound effect.
If we all generally agree that 10% of the general climbing population is behaving inappropriately and the remaining 90% willingly mobilizes to proactively correct the minority's misbehavior, I believe that we stand a good chance of keeping Torrent Falls open. We might not be in a war right now if we followed this principal - but that is another story.
I can say with certainty that if I shouted obscenities at my friends in the parking lot and 9 people took the time to stop what they were doing, approach me and tell me that I, solely, was jeopardizing the future of the crag and that they would not accept my behavior, I would think twice before dropping another f-bomb. Just me.
Anyway, this is ours to lose. Unless we ALL dramatically alter our behavior, mentality, and expectations at the crag, we will ALL lose access to one of the nations greatest crags. It is within our control, let’s not let that happen.
How many spectacular crags are we going to have to lose before we get it through our thick skulls that climbing at the Red is a privilege, and not a right? Although the quantity of rock in the Red appears boundless, the number of crags at the caliber the likes of Torrent Falls are excruciatingly limited.
Mark has been so kind as to give us all a second (or third or fourth ...) chance and what's more, under the auspice of following a few very easy to follow, common sense rules. It is critical that we not only obey these "new" rules, but pressure our fellow climbers to abide by Mark's wishes as well.
Signs are great, postings on websites are fabulous, and flyers are helpful for getting this important word out to the uneducated masses; however there is nothing like peer pressure to keep us in line. A little embarrassment goes a long way and in my opinion is critical to keep this jewel of a crag open to all climbers.
Education can come in many forms. Peer pressure is a strong and highly motivating force. Social norms at this crag need to be realigned with the property owner's wishes.
The next time that you see or hear someone violating the rules, simply stop what you are doing and ask them politely to correct their actions. When we purposefully or inadvertently act like children and one of our peers in turn responds by treating us like a child, by publicly correcting our behavior, it has a profound effect.
If we all generally agree that 10% of the general climbing population is behaving inappropriately and the remaining 90% willingly mobilizes to proactively correct the minority's misbehavior, I believe that we stand a good chance of keeping Torrent Falls open. We might not be in a war right now if we followed this principal - but that is another story.
I can say with certainty that if I shouted obscenities at my friends in the parking lot and 9 people took the time to stop what they were doing, approach me and tell me that I, solely, was jeopardizing the future of the crag and that they would not accept my behavior, I would think twice before dropping another f-bomb. Just me.
Anyway, this is ours to lose. Unless we ALL dramatically alter our behavior, mentality, and expectations at the crag, we will ALL lose access to one of the nations greatest crags. It is within our control, let’s not let that happen.
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the lurkist
- Posts: 2240
- Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:07 pm
well said, greeby.
We preach to the choir of this bbs. Anyone reading this forum is most likely already on board with sensitivities to access.
The problem is getting the message out to everyone else- all of the transient climbers who come and go through the Red. This is true for the present but also for the need to get the message out continually over time, as we, the folks on board now come and go actively climbing.
Peer pressure is probably the way. I hope everyone grabs sack and tactfully or not tactfully let folks know what behavior standards are expected when they visit the Red.
Another case other than Torrent is the owners of the Lode. I heard through the grape vine that one of the owners of the Lode came up to the cliff and was treated rudely by a climber. This man is not a climber and I don't know if someone thought he was a gumby and could harsh on him, but that seems to be what happened. So, what happens if a self absorbed climber thinks they are the most special thing ever to have occured in the history of the universe and thinks they can disrespect a spectactor at the cliff and the spectator happens to be the land owner- well, we all know what happens.
Can we afford to lose the Lode, too?
I say bring on the peer pressure.
We preach to the choir of this bbs. Anyone reading this forum is most likely already on board with sensitivities to access.
The problem is getting the message out to everyone else- all of the transient climbers who come and go through the Red. This is true for the present but also for the need to get the message out continually over time, as we, the folks on board now come and go actively climbing.
Peer pressure is probably the way. I hope everyone grabs sack and tactfully or not tactfully let folks know what behavior standards are expected when they visit the Red.
Another case other than Torrent is the owners of the Lode. I heard through the grape vine that one of the owners of the Lode came up to the cliff and was treated rudely by a climber. This man is not a climber and I don't know if someone thought he was a gumby and could harsh on him, but that seems to be what happened. So, what happens if a self absorbed climber thinks they are the most special thing ever to have occured in the history of the universe and thinks they can disrespect a spectactor at the cliff and the spectator happens to be the land owner- well, we all know what happens.
Can we afford to lose the Lode, too?
I say bring on the peer pressure.
"It really is all good ! My thinking only occasionally calls it differently..."
Normie
Normie
Amen!the lurkist wrote:
I say bring on the peer pressure.
And, here's a good resource for the LNT issues:
http://www.lnt.org
Rick
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
I just had dinner with two people who have been staying at Miguel's this week. It is as everyone suspects, very few people are aware of the danger to Torrent. There are flyers posted on the boards at RRO and Miguel's but no one who is not already familiar with the issue notices them. People climbing this weekend should make an extra effort to swing by Torrent and make sure the people who are climbing there understand.
Kathy Meyer will be watching the crag carefully to see that we comply. I know that some people are going out of there way to communicate on the issue. It's time for us all to step up.
Kathy Meyer will be watching the crag carefully to see that we comply. I know that some people are going out of there way to communicate on the issue. It's time for us all to step up.
Jesus only knows that she tries too hard. She's only trying to keep the sky from falling.
-Everlast
-Everlast