POTENTIAL CLOSURE OF TORRENT FALLS CRAG
Common sense................lost in the climbing world. Signs to ask people to pick up after themselves, not scream profanity, not to piss in someones parking area, keep there dogs quiet and leashed! I don't recall needing someone to sit down with me and say.........Now Ken, don't throw your trash on the ground, oh and be thoughtful of others. Give me a break
We could argue whether this is an issue of money, or an issue of propriety.
In my book, it would be great to support TF with donations, to be a subscriber to the place, for that matter. Icons in the guidebook are a great idea, as is the idea to distribute leaflets about dogs, fees and feces.
But that begs the question of how to deal with a root cause of the problem. If I read Mark's post right, it has a lot to do with just plain human decency. For instance, when each of us agreed to the rules of this website, we agreed to the following; "You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material..."
Face it: some of the language used in this thread (and in some people's signatures) flies in the face of the intent of the webmaster, and common courtesy.
In the fall I was at Bruise Brothers with wife, daughters and son. A guy approached from below, saw his buds down the crag and yelled at the top of his lungs "Hey, chicken fuckers". He emphasized the third word. This alone would cause the closing of TF. And so it should. No person, paying customer or not, should have to listen to that kind of trash.
I would imagine that Mark isn't eager to show page 39 in the guidebook to his clients. Is that picture supposed to represent the climbing community? Is the vulgar an accepted part of the climbing ethic?
The point is that common courtesy and decency should rule. But people can't even get it right on this website while they rag on the people who can't get it right on the crag.
I am all for proactive policing of ourselves, but that ought to include a review of common courtesies.
In my book, it would be great to support TF with donations, to be a subscriber to the place, for that matter. Icons in the guidebook are a great idea, as is the idea to distribute leaflets about dogs, fees and feces.
But that begs the question of how to deal with a root cause of the problem. If I read Mark's post right, it has a lot to do with just plain human decency. For instance, when each of us agreed to the rules of this website, we agreed to the following; "You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material..."
Face it: some of the language used in this thread (and in some people's signatures) flies in the face of the intent of the webmaster, and common courtesy.
In the fall I was at Bruise Brothers with wife, daughters and son. A guy approached from below, saw his buds down the crag and yelled at the top of his lungs "Hey, chicken fuckers". He emphasized the third word. This alone would cause the closing of TF. And so it should. No person, paying customer or not, should have to listen to that kind of trash.
I would imagine that Mark isn't eager to show page 39 in the guidebook to his clients. Is that picture supposed to represent the climbing community? Is the vulgar an accepted part of the climbing ethic?
The point is that common courtesy and decency should rule. But people can't even get it right on this website while they rag on the people who can't get it right on the crag.
I am all for proactive policing of ourselves, but that ought to include a review of common courtesies.
I also have dogs (2), and would be just fine with a dog free crag at torrnet - they don't have much fun there anyway, since it is kinda crowded, and they are tied up all the time.
I would also suggest a limit on the number of cars / climbers at any one time. That would help with the noise / trash levels as well.
Wes
I would also suggest a limit on the number of cars / climbers at any one time. That would help with the noise / trash levels as well.
Wes
"There is no secret ingredient"
Po, the kung fu panda
Po, the kung fu panda
I agree on the banning of dogs. It simplifies the rules greatly. then there can be no wishy-washy "my dog will never bite anyone, I don't need a muzzle" or "oh there was no one at the crag so I thought I would let my dog off the leash"
There are plenty of crags that you can bring dogs to, if they are creating a problem, don't allow them.
ps. I like dogs too, River is one of my best friends. However he doesn't need to go to Torrent.
There are plenty of crags that you can bring dogs to, if they are creating a problem, don't allow them.
ps. I like dogs too, River is one of my best friends. However he doesn't need to go to Torrent.
Last edited by merrick on Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Back from the Dead!
I think turnstyles at the entrance to the two trails up would jar people out of the conception that torrent is like other crags. If I walked through a turnstyle that was directly in front a large sign that had big red letters that said:
NO DOGS
NO PROFANITY
USE ONLY DESIGNATED BATHROOMS
NO LITTERING
I would realize I was not at a normal crag where anything goes and i would probably be more vigilant in policing my own behavior. In the middle of the whip I don't think what comes out of my mouth is that much of conscious thought. We need to reach a sub-concious level
NO DOGS
NO PROFANITY
USE ONLY DESIGNATED BATHROOMS
NO LITTERING
I would realize I was not at a normal crag where anything goes and i would probably be more vigilant in policing my own behavior. In the middle of the whip I don't think what comes out of my mouth is that much of conscious thought. We need to reach a sub-concious level
Back from the Dead!
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captain static
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I was planning on submitting an article on RRG climbing impact measurement and research for the next Access Fund Vertical Times newsletter. Instead I will now submit an article on the Torrent Falls closure threat and climber behavior.
"Be responsible for your actions and sensitive to the concerns of other visitors and land managers. ... Your reward is the opportunity to climb in one of the most beautiful areas in this part of the country." John H. Bronaugh
A. I'll be sure to put a picture of Jesus in there next time.rockwahl wrote: I would imagine that Mark isn't eager to show page 39 in the guidebook to his clients. Is that picture supposed to represent the climbing community? Is the vulgar an accepted part of the climbing ethic?
B. Yes, but not on private land.
Yo Ray jack dynomite! Listen to my beat box! Bew ch ch pff BEW ch ch pfff! Sweet!
-Horatio
-Horatio
