Torrent Falls Trail Day

Post by **Wes** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:48 pm

Don't know, I was climbing, just like everyone else. Well, everyone but the five or so people who showed up. The same people that do more work then just about anyone else. They gave up their climbing day, just like they always do, to try to keep climbing open in the red. So, when Mark closes Torrent to climbing, as he is totally justified in doing, those same five people will work to get it back open again. But, personally, I think he should just close it permantaly. Some really cool routes there, and it would be a big loss, but we, as a community do not deserve the privledge of climbing there. We trash the place, don't pay, don't follow the rules, and don't show up to help build the trails we use. So, to me, we do not deserve to climb there.

Post by **Saxman** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:00 pm

5?? Five?? Wow, that's bad. Bad weather forecast to blame?

Post by **pigsteak** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:05 pm

nope. people who don't care enough to help out. only takers in the community. i am including myself because i climbed and didn't help out.

Post by **charlie** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:16 pm

We got quite a bit done, but as Wes mentioned it was pretty much a Board of Director's Trail day. Rick loaned us some tools which were much appreciated and other than Hugh and Dwight and Terry it was just us on the RRGCC BOD. We got the trail going up to the ten wall pretty much improved, not quite finished because of the rain but it's a ton better than before. The trail around the cliff line was reworked over the seepages as well.

We also talked to Mark for a bit and he's getting a little frustrated with the climbers these days. Not only is there all the trash and fowl language, it seems it's a very choice few dropping cash in the donation box these days. Climbers are moving the firepit chairs to the wall, their dogs aren't on a leash, they walk up the hill and don't say hey to Mark or Kathy and don't even drop any donations. If it were me I'd have that place setup as an invitation only crag for the people that can show the landowner a little respect. Luckily for us Mark is a much better person than I, but who knows how much longer his patience will last.

So, here's what I personally would love to see....

Climbers should always read the kiosks wherever they go, donate if it's requested (the money goes purely to building the steps and improving the property), and if you see some other weeksauss fuckers who leave trash, don't donate, don't leash their dogs, or offend Mark's (paying guests), step up and give them a talking to. We have to police ourselves and it's everyone's responsibility to educate and harrass the people who bring down the average.

tnks,
mgmt.

Post by **Artsay** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:18 pm

I disagree with Wes. Sure, the same folks always turn out for trail days but that's their preferred way of "giving back". Many others give differently...some monetarily, some with their time (Wes - the slide shows you're doing are a huge sacrifice), and others give in other ways. And Mark has made a living off of climbers so he's not going to close Torrent.

I didn't go. I have a neck injury right now and I can't climb, let alone pick up five pounds. But if I were well, I'd probably have been climbing with our friends that are in town from Germany instead of sitting at home while Ray was climbing with them. But our friends raised $500 for the PMRP and Ray and I are doing our fair share to help with the cause. So are we undeserving to climb at Torrent now because we didn't go to the trail day?

To me, that mentaility is a weight in our climbing community and it needs to stop. That finger pointing of "what are YOU doing to help?" gets old. If everyone simply continues to help in ways that work best for them, then a balance will exist and, so far, it seems to be working well to me.

Big thanks to those who went to Torrent to build some trails. I can't wait to see what you all accomplished!

Post by **Wes** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:23 pm

Artsay, I totally agree with what you are saying - I personally don't feel at all bad for not being there - I have (and will continue to) put my community service hours in this year, last year, and the years past. You and Ray have put a ton of time and money into things, as have many others. Those people are on my "cool kids" list, even if they never show up for a trail day. But, *we* as a community have not done well with torrent, so we, as a group should loose the abilty to climb there.

Post by **Artsay** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:43 pm

Okay, but what about this...

*We* as a community are NOT just those that view the internet boards. Besides posting here and on the RRGCC board, what was done to advertise for the trail day?

I've heard from countless people that they just simply never know about the trail days. So before calling our entire community selfish, I think it's important to acknowledge that maybe the current methods used to inform the climbing community of ways they can help may not be effective.

Just my two cents...

Post by **rhunt** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:46 pm

I agree with Wes in that *we* as a community need consequences when *we* don't do our part for the community. I think Mark should close Torrent and post sighs saying why. Maybe then *we* will start to get the message.

Yet also I have to wonder how much advertising outside rrc.com went into the torrent trail day? Was there flyers posted in all the local climbing gyms in Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, etc? Was there flyers at Miguels, Marks BBQ, RRO, Lago Linda's? If all *we* do is post something on this web page and expect the word to get out...sorry that is not the best way to get the word out.

Still I think the best solution is consequenses. Mark should close torrent if things don't change and then maybe if we ask nicely and agree as a community to do our part he might consider opening it back up. The only time most people ever care about things that have to do with access is when there is a crisis. That is the way it has always been with the rrg climbing community. Just look at the history of the RRGCC and how things got accomplished. It took crisis for most people to step up and help, while the devoted few were always there to work on preventing crisis. Now we have this "save the MPRP" crisis and now people are starting to step up again.

Post by **Wes** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:47 pm

True for sure, but it isn't just the trail day (which probably could have been promoted better) - it is also all those other things that Charlie listed.

Post by **Artsay** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:02 pm

Yea, I agree, but that crap goes on in any facet of life and recreation. Folks sneak friends into hotel rooms, people sneak into concerts, movie theatres, throw trash out their windows, handoff ski passes, etc. I'm not justifying it, I just think that, on the whole, climbers are a good lot of people and maybe our methods for making the oblivious ones become more aware need to be questioned.

Personally, I don't think Mark's donation bucket is obvious enough. Sure, it's at the head of the trail and sure, it asks for a donation to climb, but it's not an eye sore attracting my attention demanding I pay to climb so maybe something needs to change? I think it's important to identify and offer solutions instead of focusing on throwing blame.