Verbal,
Ask 88keys what the name is. I can't think of it right now...Wait a sec.
"Opening Act"? maybe.
It was said toungue-in-cheek. Huggy took a huge whipper on it.
Bad Lead Falls
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Kwas
Or maybe routes should read like this: "Climb first ten feet and sink in a #1 camalot, check for pendulum potential, climb next ten feet and put in a #8 stopper, check for ground fall potential, climb next ten feet and ........ check for loose rock, etc. etc. etc. " Climbing by numbers. No ,adventure in that is there?
Or why not give climbs a "IQ" rating from 60-160 wih 160 being routes people with an IQ of 60 should definintely stay off of because of potential ground fall, ledge hitting, pedulum, or the need for higher IQ.
What is this? Why dumb down the sport? Don't words like "judgement" and "personal responsiblity" mean anything any more? I would say if a person cannot judge for themselves what kind of trouble lies ahead then they should not be on the route in the first place.
Telling a guy the route is 120 feet should be enough. Telling a guy that a 60 meter is needed is a courtesy. Telling a guy it would be nice to have an extra #11 hex or two is a couretesy. Unless there are none or no walk off you shold not have to tell someone there are fixed anchors on a sport route. Duh. Telling someone there are fixed anchors on a trad climb is a courtesey. Or how about one of the safety slogans we use here at work, " If you don't know, ask".
How many times do people have to be told that "Climbing is an inherently dangerous sport".
No offense inteneded. Just my calloused two cents worth.
Or why not give climbs a "IQ" rating from 60-160 wih 160 being routes people with an IQ of 60 should definintely stay off of because of potential ground fall, ledge hitting, pedulum, or the need for higher IQ.
What is this? Why dumb down the sport? Don't words like "judgement" and "personal responsiblity" mean anything any more? I would say if a person cannot judge for themselves what kind of trouble lies ahead then they should not be on the route in the first place.
Telling a guy the route is 120 feet should be enough. Telling a guy that a 60 meter is needed is a courtesy. Telling a guy it would be nice to have an extra #11 hex or two is a couretesy. Unless there are none or no walk off you shold not have to tell someone there are fixed anchors on a sport route. Duh. Telling someone there are fixed anchors on a trad climb is a courtesey. Or how about one of the safety slogans we use here at work, " If you don't know, ask".
How many times do people have to be told that "Climbing is an inherently dangerous sport".
No offense inteneded. Just my calloused two cents worth.
I think beta about falling into trees and ledges is something that would be helpful to know, especially in the case that it is on a route where that danger is not visible from the ground, but like anything it shouldn't be overdone. And if there is a clip that is severely runout (i.e. Face Up to that Crack or Funkadelic), then why not warn the climber so that s/he knows to take a cam. Though I suppose that is done with the M rating, so that may not be as much of an issue, really.
"I snatched defeat from the jaws of victory." --Paul
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(Emails > PMs)
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(Emails > PMs)
I think Johnny, JB, and Kwas said it all.
Put the warnings in if you like, it is you and Ray's guidebook, but I don't think it should be overdone. An instance like Skin Flute or some other route where there is a hidden hazard makes sense. If you can't see the concept of peeling off KY Pinstripe and hitting the tree than maybe whacking your noggin' on said tree would knock some sense into ya. By giving warnings to some routes it might make routes without such warning seem 'safe'.
Put the warnings in if you like, it is you and Ray's guidebook, but I don't think it should be overdone. An instance like Skin Flute or some other route where there is a hidden hazard makes sense. If you can't see the concept of peeling off KY Pinstripe and hitting the tree than maybe whacking your noggin' on said tree would knock some sense into ya. By giving warnings to some routes it might make routes without such warning seem 'safe'.
I see they are still lopping off mountains in Eastern Kentucky. Electricity isn't cheap.
I don't remember the name either, but its the steep flake sport climb at the areana. 5.10+ ish. I don't know though, jeff, I think I was still a good ways off the ground. I'd say it's a safe route. Just makes you sweat a little. That was the biggest fall I have ever taken. I was thinking, 'shoudn't I have stopped by now?'
good clean fun.
good clean fun.
Hey now...it's not my guidebook! Ray did all the work.
In fact, Ray and I haven't even talked about this. I just thought about it this morning while eating my Genisoy bar. I was thinking about how someone told me that Gung Ho was a grounder if you didn't make the second clip and got to thinking that it would be kinda neat to separate the "real" bad falls from fictitous bad falls. Seemed like useful information.
In fact, Ray and I haven't even talked about this. I just thought about it this morning while eating my Genisoy bar. I was thinking about how someone told me that Gung Ho was a grounder if you didn't make the second clip and got to thinking that it would be kinda neat to separate the "real" bad falls from fictitous bad falls. Seemed like useful information.
Opening act is sweet. Its definantly safe. No ground fall potential. It does look like you will hit the wall really hard if you fall clipping the bolt above the little bulge, but you won't. That climb is great, but it does make you sweet a little.
Steve it was and is obvious that you can hit that tree, but he still did, and if you read my last post it is obvious that I don't think we should add a R or X rating to anything that doesn't already have one. I do think that unforseen dangers might be worth noting if the possible risk is death. Falling into a tree is obviously not worth noting, neither is a pendulum swing, but I know alot of people who didn't notice the possibility of hitting the ledge on the thing to the left of skin flute. People should be aware and look at a route before attempting it whether its trad or sport. People should know the possible dangers of climbing before they attempt it.
Steve it was and is obvious that you can hit that tree, but he still did, and if you read my last post it is obvious that I don't think we should add a R or X rating to anything that doesn't already have one. I do think that unforseen dangers might be worth noting if the possible risk is death. Falling into a tree is obviously not worth noting, neither is a pendulum swing, but I know alot of people who didn't notice the possibility of hitting the ledge on the thing to the left of skin flute. People should be aware and look at a route before attempting it whether its trad or sport. People should know the possible dangers of climbing before they attempt it.
Living the dream
He he he I like starting rumors!
Just trying to use an example of a 'dangerous' route that I've seen mentioned around here.
Artsay, you have a vested interest in the on-line guide since you lost your boyfriend to late nights of computer work. You did those maps too?!
Just trying to use an example of a 'dangerous' route that I've seen mentioned around here.
Artsay, you have a vested interest in the on-line guide since you lost your boyfriend to late nights of computer work. You did those maps too?!
I see they are still lopping off mountains in Eastern Kentucky. Electricity isn't cheap.