Over zealous college groups...

Post by **Meadows** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 5:34 pm

I'm not a trad climber nor do I pretend to be one, but my experience in the Red tells me that if I see two or more big white vans with university logos (or is it crests?) or a plethora of vehicles parked at a certain crag, I should choose another area.

I think that is called common sense - could someone confirm?

Post by **the lurkist** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:15 pm

Here is an old beef of mine. Not so much that massive University Groups are coming. No one can do a thing to stop them, nor should anyone. Actually the opposite. Encourage them, but direct them, and motivate them to tythe to the RRGCC. These University Groups have budgets. I am sure they could be approached for giving. Why shouldn't they contribute? They certainly take advantage.

Post by **busty** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:20 pm

I agree with Meadows. Big vans = big crowd.

Post by **Andrew** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:36 pm

Post by **Ascentionist** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:37 pm

I see no need for a big group to take up an entire cliff. My policy on guiding was always if a group is over a certain number then it would get split up. And I can't think of any instance when I had more than two climbs up at a time. I would stand my ground on my two climbs, but I would also make way as quickly as possible and move on.

I was at Fortress once and had a University group run us off. We had just gotten our first route of the day put up and they showed up and asked how long we were going to be. There were five of us and we said we were all five going to do the route. The leader huffed and stomped away and then proceeeded to string up every line along the ledge with anchors.

Of course he was mad all five of us were going to climb the route, it would put his group of 30 that much farther behind schedule.

Post by KD » Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:45 am

undergrads...sheesh!

Post by **the lurkist** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:15 am

Didn't the FS revoke all guiding on the Natl Forest? Not to rain on you (Andrew), RRo, True North, or anyone else, but a group coming from one school with one leader and a bunch of neophytes sounds like they are guiding. Did they pay for a permit ($1000?!) in the first place? Maybe someone could tell them they need to clear it with the Glady Center or with the Stanton (now Morehead) office.

Post by **Ascentionist** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:06 pm

I wasn't aware they changed the guiding policy at all, but I don't handle the permit anymore. There was always a list of approved crags on FS land that you could use and any blanket closures or restrictions applied. Also, they don't want groups parking their 15 passenger vans at the main parking area for Fortress or at Phantasia. They take up too much room. And that goes back to the days of Natural Heights. I don't know of any instances of them enforcing it, though there were days when i wished they would.

I do know from past conversations regarding permits, that the local FS would like every "group" whether for profit or not to contact them before coming to the area and climbing. It's more (from a non-profit standpoint) so they can inform them of closures and restrictions. That's basically what the whole permit system is for anyway.

Post by **Mike Jones** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:13 pm

Andrew wrote:Who?

Mike Jones!

Post by **merrick** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:03 pm

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