Victory whips

Post by **gneiss** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:55 pm

you obviously need practice to get to my height of suckness.

Post by **Artsay** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:59 pm

gneiss wrote:I've fallen trying to clip the anchors several times. you might almost say a lot

Yea, *going* to the anchors but it's pretty rare to be holding the anchor clipping hold and fall. I have done it before but it's rare. Plus, it's pretty obvious when someone is doing a victory whip.

Post by **Meadows** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:04 pm

My first lead fall ever was because I was too pumped to clip the anchors. It was a dramatic moment of me screaming to my belayer and about to cry.

Post by **Toad** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:04 pm

Paul3eb wrote: it's not rule intended to be enforced. it's intended to be respected. so it really comes down to this: do you have the respect for the weber's? if you don't, you shouldn't be there in the first place.

Damn self restraint.

I do have a question that maybe someone could answer that sort of goes along with this thread of intentionally falling on to a bolt. Is one permitted to take intentional falls at the Valley in order to train a belayer in the finer points of catching a climber and thus be a safer member of the climbing community? Is there a specific place set up to do this or must one go someplace else for the safety training?

Post by **gneiss** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:10 pm

oh I agree, you would never mistake my whimpering, whining and desperately trying to clip then falling, cussing and screaming and overall just throwing a temper tantrum with a victory whipper... I just wanted to say that it happens more often than you might think.

It's cool because that happens a lot less when you pull over the top and stand up to finish a climb

Post by **meetVA** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:37 pm

Toad, I sort of understand what you are doing with your picking but I think you would be better off arguing elsewhere.

There is a similarity between your example :training a belayer: and the decision to discourage victory whips, both are an effort to make climbing safer at Muir.

Something I think the Weber's would support but as I am neither Rick or Liz, I suppose I can't say that they would.

Post by **tomdarch** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:39 pm

First off, I'd like to say that whatever rules the Webbers post for Muir, I'll follow them to the letter while I'm there. Stick your pinkies in your nostrils and your thumbs in your ears and hum the Star Spangled Banner before climbing? Sure! It's their sandbox, and I'm grateful for it!

At the same time, I suspect that Wes is right on. He's particularly right if we're talking about clipping both draws and yarding out rope for the whip.

Personally, it's not my idea of fun. Also, I'd just rather put less wear and tear on the bolts. But if you're into it, go right ahead (just not at Muir...)

Meadows wrote:My first lead fall ever was because I was too pumped to clip the anchors. It was a dramatic moment of me screaming to my belayer and about to cry.

That wouldn't have been on "To Defy" before it was rebolted, would it? Ahhh.... (painful, frightening) memories....

Post by **squeezindlemmon** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:48 pm

Toad wrote:I do have a question that maybe someone could answer that sort of goes along with this thread of intentionally falling on to a bolt. Is one permitted to take intentional falls at the Valley in order to train a belayer in the finer points of catching a climber and thus be a safer member of the climbing community? Is there a specific place set up to do this or must one go someplace else for the safety training?

Muir Valley Rules & Guidelines wrote:2. WARNING: Rock climbing is a dangerous sport, participation in which can cause permanent paralysis or other serious injury and death to you or to those around you. You should never climb without extensive training by experienced climbers. You should never climb without proper high-quality rock climbing gear. And, you should never climb if you are not willing to accept full responsibility for the consequences of your participation in this dangerous sport.

If you climb at MV, you should have already signed a waiver. If you signed a waiver, you agreed that you are an experienced climber when you climb in the valley. So nobody should really be 'training' their belayer on how to catch a climber while climbing in MV. You already acknowledged that you know what you are doing.

I find it utterly confusing why most of you readily admit that you do not know much about the technicalities and details of issues such as this and yet you post and state your side on the matter like you know what you are talking about.

Post by **Meadows** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:58 pm

That bolded statement seems more to me like a suggestion not an agreement that the peson is an experienced climber.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:03 pm

I know it's tradition on this forum to argue for the sake of arguing, but please, everyone, realize that while you are all free to debate the rationale behind the Webers' ban on victory whips, there is no debate about their rules: follow them or don't climb there. Otherwise you risk having the entire area closed to climbing for the general public.