Thus, they make the rules. Why is this so difficult?Granted you own the land and yes, you allow people to climb.
I suspect the the land that makes up Muir Valley wasn't free. Nor the road they just built. Etc.You are getting shit for free.
split topic, from Two Muir Routes closed
I'm an experienced woman; I've been around... well, alright, I might not've been around, but I've been... nearby.
~ Mary Richards (Mary Tyler Moore Show)
~ Mary Richards (Mary Tyler Moore Show)
it's dirty down there and obviously needs cleaning.lordjim_2001 wrote:so I can see what the beer, smokes, tape, and maybe paper, is doing down there but what's up with the bleach bottle?
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
- Robert McCloskey
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
- Emo Philips
- Robert McCloskey
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
- Emo Philips
-
Horatio Felacio
- Posts: 3338
- Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 7:26 pm
Ultra, you are way out of line dude. And yes its the webers property, they lay down the rules and you abid by them or just don't climb there. There rules aren't hard to follow. They are climber friendly, and as a climber I think everything they have done for us, along with team Muir, has been wonderful. For you to sit there and "bad mouth" the webers and all they have done shows you have no respect for them. If you dont like what they are doing by god dont climb there dude, simple as that but dont criticize these people.
Also if I am not mistaking I thought the webers were the ones purchasing the bolts to make them all consistent, am I wrong?
Also if I am not mistaking I thought the webers were the ones purchasing the bolts to make them all consistent, am I wrong?
Who Me? I gotta hitch hike god damn 18 miles to get a god damn beer......that's bullshit.
Ultra, you have a lot of nerve critisizing Rick for how he manages his own property when the end result is providing a bunch of climbing to anyone that wants to. I feel bad about the whole conflict with Greg but I can't imagine what you are trying to accomplish by accusing Rick of being a control freak. I can't see any good in it. It only leads to more conflict.
Stewy911
We are providing many of the bolts, but most of the developers have chosen to provide their own. Historically, route developers provide their own hardware. Bolts are only a small fraction of the "cost" of putting up a route. Most of the expense to a developer is his/her effort. It's hard work.
Rick
We are providing many of the bolts, but most of the developers have chosen to provide their own. Historically, route developers provide their own hardware. Bolts are only a small fraction of the "cost" of putting up a route. Most of the expense to a developer is his/her effort. It's hard work.
Rick
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
Ultra, don't you have somewhere else to go and stir up trouble just for trouble's sake? I had the opportunity to climb at Muir this weekend and had a great time, climbed some really fun routes, and enjoyed the company of climbers from around the globe. The best part of it was finally getting to meet Rick and Liz - I'm humbled by their efforts. In spite of the BS they deal with on this forum, the Webers are cheerfully inviting all of us to climb at Muir. As VA pointed out, they could've purchased the area, developed it, and kept it as a "private" area accessible only to certain folks. Undoubtedly, this would be easier - no public scrutiny, no complaints about who gets to/doesn't get to bolt, etc. - but instead they've opened it up to complete strangers. Not only is it their investment, but it is their passion. If you want to be critical of someone, find a legit argument.
Please note that I am not "taking sides" in the spoonman/tim bolting controversy as I have no prior knowledge of the situation. I only post to point out the obvious -
1 - as with any development, there will be some controversy - cutting down trees, bolt placement, who is bolting what, etc.
2 - the webers and their associates/team muir/etc. are doing a great job of tackling these issues and are responding to all kinds of criticism, etc. in a very timely manner. In the end, not everyone is going to be happy, but the Webers will do what is in the best interest of Muir and the community. They always do - they've put in an emergency access road, have video surveylance in their parking lot, etc.
3 - the future of climbing in the red is going to be private land - forest service access is not guaranteed indefinitely... thus, the webers, rrgcc, grant and john, and others who are thinking about/have purchased land for climbing and recreation are really on the cutting edge of preserving access to climbing in KY - let's support these folks such that others might also think about doing something like this. access is not secure even at some of the privately held areas - who knows what Tom Hall will do with the 'Lode in the future... (just one example) - anyhow, i'm just asking for a little bit of RESPECT for these generous and really wonderful folks.
Please note that I am not "taking sides" in the spoonman/tim bolting controversy as I have no prior knowledge of the situation. I only post to point out the obvious -
1 - as with any development, there will be some controversy - cutting down trees, bolt placement, who is bolting what, etc.
2 - the webers and their associates/team muir/etc. are doing a great job of tackling these issues and are responding to all kinds of criticism, etc. in a very timely manner. In the end, not everyone is going to be happy, but the Webers will do what is in the best interest of Muir and the community. They always do - they've put in an emergency access road, have video surveylance in their parking lot, etc.
3 - the future of climbing in the red is going to be private land - forest service access is not guaranteed indefinitely... thus, the webers, rrgcc, grant and john, and others who are thinking about/have purchased land for climbing and recreation are really on the cutting edge of preserving access to climbing in KY - let's support these folks such that others might also think about doing something like this. access is not secure even at some of the privately held areas - who knows what Tom Hall will do with the 'Lode in the future... (just one example) - anyhow, i'm just asking for a little bit of RESPECT for these generous and really wonderful folks.
Rick is doing a great service to a lot of people, and I always say thank you. My issues have been with the "sheriff".
I have never seen anyone drinking at the Santuary or Muir at all. For the record I have not been to the Sanctuary since I sent the the "frog" almost 6 weeks ago. I had nothing to do with Mike painting the name of the route, I do not know when he did the route. Mark stopped into the gym yesterday and I was then told. I was in the gorge last on the 3rd and 4th.
Where ever you climb, you should always clean up your mess. I know of no climber who would do this. Three months ago I roped up five empty water jugs from the solarium and hauled them out.
In a democratic society it is easy to conceive of a committe serving the Muir. The elected president could be the only voice to the owner. Controlling who is on the develpment committe would be the major snag, but I am sure it could be worked out. This would elimanate the presser on one individual and act as a control for counterproductive rules.
Imagine how I felt when I was told: "all the route names in the Sancturay have to have religous names and be approved by my wife?" Luckily rick stepped in at that juncture.
I have never seen anyone drinking at the Santuary or Muir at all. For the record I have not been to the Sanctuary since I sent the the "frog" almost 6 weeks ago. I had nothing to do with Mike painting the name of the route, I do not know when he did the route. Mark stopped into the gym yesterday and I was then told. I was in the gorge last on the 3rd and 4th.
Where ever you climb, you should always clean up your mess. I know of no climber who would do this. Three months ago I roped up five empty water jugs from the solarium and hauled them out.
In a democratic society it is easy to conceive of a committe serving the Muir. The elected president could be the only voice to the owner. Controlling who is on the develpment committe would be the major snag, but I am sure it could be worked out. This would elimanate the presser on one individual and act as a control for counterproductive rules.
Imagine how I felt when I was told: "all the route names in the Sancturay have to have religous names and be approved by my wife?" Luckily rick stepped in at that juncture.