Wes, that was awesome!
P.S. don't worry, Pete has a great sense of humor
Crazyfingers
Yeah, C'est si Bon, they ought to draw and quarter the guy who put in that road!!="C'est Si Bon
I realize that there will be impact but it doesn't have to be as bad as the the slash and burn 30ft wide road that is happening on the valley floor at muir.
Seriously, removing those trees really hurt me. I'm a tree hugger at heart. But there has never been a park or preserve that hasn't had to struggle with the balance between access and preservation of the natural beauty of the area.
The road was absolutely necessary. For getting maintenance equipment down there to erase years of logging abuse, and most importantly for safety access. Without this road, removing an injured climber and carrying them up 300+ feet of elevation and over 2 miles of trail would be the only way out.
We spent many hours surveying a road that would do the least possible damage to the valley. I was really disappointed that we could not follow the bottom along the creek. But, it was a swamp that would never support a road bed.
It has cost us over $30,000 to date and it is about 40% finished. And we are happy to make this investment for this climbing community. As you noticed, it still needs a LOT of clean up and erosion control. I was back there today with my Kubota putting in an uphill side ditch and seeding the downhill side slopes. Those six big trees that had to be removed also need to be cleaned up. Which for 2.5 miles of road isn't too bad -- six big trees and 3 or 4 dozen small ones.
I would suggest that those of you who don't like the condition of the road to please visit us during the Gathering Trail Day and help improve it.
Rick
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
back to the original subject, i think it is ultimately up to the landowners. but my vote would be for them to cut it.
having climbed at a few different areas over the last few years I can definately say I appreciate it when the area's developers take that extra step to mitigate risk. you can't remove risk but you can pry that ankle breaker out from beneath the boulder, remove the loose block on the route you bolt, remove the tree that would skewer the climber when they whip.
places like joes valley are highly manicured, however you can't tell. if you weren't there when they were developing the problems you would never know the boys were crowbaring big blocks and leveling out landing areas. within a couple years it looks completely normal and no one knows better, and people enjoy the problems. the area became classic.
at places like portrero and american fork the amount of cleaning required to open a route is so massive that there is talus beneath the routes. basically the outer layer of rock is rotten and you need to get at the good stuff underneath. however, if you aren't there on the days they are cleaning routes with crowbars or trundling refreigerator sized blocks a few hundred feet down you would never know. and the resulting climbs still clean up quite a bit. and the routes are good.
even up in squamish they put in real trails through the boulders this summer. it looks like crap now. two years from now it will look natural, sustain the impact and reduce spidering trail systems. the landings are still talus and blocks but that is what five fiends with crashpads are for.
adventure climbing and building a crag that can handle a large influx of impact are very different activities. there are definately very valid debates about the nature of climbers impact on the environment but with the number of people climbing there is less negative damage on the evironment with land management then leaving things natural. it is not an outside gym but it is not a natural experience either.
so cut the tree before some one gets it up the a$$.
having climbed at a few different areas over the last few years I can definately say I appreciate it when the area's developers take that extra step to mitigate risk. you can't remove risk but you can pry that ankle breaker out from beneath the boulder, remove the loose block on the route you bolt, remove the tree that would skewer the climber when they whip.
places like joes valley are highly manicured, however you can't tell. if you weren't there when they were developing the problems you would never know the boys were crowbaring big blocks and leveling out landing areas. within a couple years it looks completely normal and no one knows better, and people enjoy the problems. the area became classic.
at places like portrero and american fork the amount of cleaning required to open a route is so massive that there is talus beneath the routes. basically the outer layer of rock is rotten and you need to get at the good stuff underneath. however, if you aren't there on the days they are cleaning routes with crowbars or trundling refreigerator sized blocks a few hundred feet down you would never know. and the resulting climbs still clean up quite a bit. and the routes are good.
even up in squamish they put in real trails through the boulders this summer. it looks like crap now. two years from now it will look natural, sustain the impact and reduce spidering trail systems. the landings are still talus and blocks but that is what five fiends with crashpads are for.
adventure climbing and building a crag that can handle a large influx of impact are very different activities. there are definately very valid debates about the nature of climbers impact on the environment but with the number of people climbing there is less negative damage on the evironment with land management then leaving things natural. it is not an outside gym but it is not a natural experience either.
so cut the tree before some one gets it up the a$$.
Back from the Dead!
-
the lurkist
- Posts: 2240
- Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:07 pm