A few clarifications are in order here to (hopefully) help calm the waters:
1. Greg is not the only one to have a route request turned down recently. No one including myself, is being granted permission to bolt a route until we have resolved the Dynabolt Gold issues and have given all those who will be developing routes in Muir updated instructions for properly installing and torquing these bolts and other types.
2. No Muir routes are to be sold or bartered. Once a developer has asked and received permission to put up a route, he/she is expected to finish the route, including attaching all hardware and cleaning it, within one year. It is not necessary, but preferred that the first ascentionist be from the group who puts up the route.
3. Just as in business, reporting to more than one boss doesn't work. Tim has been delegated the authority to inspect new possible lines and either grant permission or deny it to put up a route. Despite Greg's recent posting, this has worked very well for 240 first class routes, and we see no reason to change. As always, we are open to your suggestions, advice, criticisms, etc.
Rick
split topic, from Two Muir Routes closed
-
the lurkist
- Posts: 2240
- Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:07 pm
Rick
Rick,......I really do not care if you put a bolt in the trad line. I do not think it needs it, but I really do not care. Actually, that would be better than someone getting hurt (although, I do not think that would happen). Since I scrubbed lichen on the climb for about three hours, maybe I could be asked?
I read your post about 12 hours after Tim, emhasized that I was not a part of team Muir and gave me the third different answer to where I could look for a route. I think his Team Muir (pink T-shirts with google head logos) is pure bunk. What about the hundred people who volenteered to do trail work last year (and hopefully this year). Are they part of the TEAM. Thanks for the credit asshole!
Obviously, I am not worried about a new route at the M. I burnt the bridge and felt a bit releaved. Thing is that's only the tip of the ice burg.
I am not angered at not getting a specific route. I am angered at getting three or four different answers to requests for a route.......anywhere. I have wasted a great amount of energy rapping down something spoken for.......then when I ask tim were I can go ....he gives me another vague answer. I have climbed on top of the damn cliff (s) and rapped down and inspected a handful of lines (one 7 times....the one hugh wanted to give me and the one tim knew i was interested in) for a total of over 15 trips up the cliff.......,but Tim does not have the Balls to tell me he simply does not want me to bolt anything. He just wants to jack me around.
I was not bartering with hugh, anyway. I challaged him to get tim to let me have the route. I knew tim would say no (even told brian right after Hugh left)........cause he is on the power trip and just wants to jack me around till i kiss his ass.
When we first heard Tim say, "as long as you boys keep the Sheriff happy things will be just fine." I should have known I would blow up at his egomanical bull shit, and got free. Instead i have been kissing ass and now I am embarresed at myself (for not having a spine).
Whether appropriate or not to put this in a public forum is debateable. I felt I had nothing to lose. I already lost a friend (maybe he is still in there somwhere). He was not going to let me do a new route.......he won't even give me a straight answer. Then he spits in my face. If ya get kicked in the face you might just kick back.
I may or may not print my whole version of the two year saga. I am not perfect and admit it. This forum has been pretty boring lately. Ya WTF, now I am an asshole too. How about a poll! How many people would be cool with spending 50 bucks for another climber, put in the hardware in a step ass climb, never get thanked for it, then he gives it someone else. WTF!
I truely hope the side taking will cease and/or will not grow. Nobody is going to win.....we both lost.
I'll get my ropes and draws out as soon possible.
I read your post about 12 hours after Tim, emhasized that I was not a part of team Muir and gave me the third different answer to where I could look for a route. I think his Team Muir (pink T-shirts with google head logos) is pure bunk. What about the hundred people who volenteered to do trail work last year (and hopefully this year). Are they part of the TEAM. Thanks for the credit asshole!
Obviously, I am not worried about a new route at the M. I burnt the bridge and felt a bit releaved. Thing is that's only the tip of the ice burg.
I am not angered at not getting a specific route. I am angered at getting three or four different answers to requests for a route.......anywhere. I have wasted a great amount of energy rapping down something spoken for.......then when I ask tim were I can go ....he gives me another vague answer. I have climbed on top of the damn cliff (s) and rapped down and inspected a handful of lines (one 7 times....the one hugh wanted to give me and the one tim knew i was interested in) for a total of over 15 trips up the cliff.......,but Tim does not have the Balls to tell me he simply does not want me to bolt anything. He just wants to jack me around.
I was not bartering with hugh, anyway. I challaged him to get tim to let me have the route. I knew tim would say no (even told brian right after Hugh left)........cause he is on the power trip and just wants to jack me around till i kiss his ass.
When we first heard Tim say, "as long as you boys keep the Sheriff happy things will be just fine." I should have known I would blow up at his egomanical bull shit, and got free. Instead i have been kissing ass and now I am embarresed at myself (for not having a spine).
Whether appropriate or not to put this in a public forum is debateable. I felt I had nothing to lose. I already lost a friend (maybe he is still in there somwhere). He was not going to let me do a new route.......he won't even give me a straight answer. Then he spits in my face. If ya get kicked in the face you might just kick back.
I may or may not print my whole version of the two year saga. I am not perfect and admit it. This forum has been pretty boring lately. Ya WTF, now I am an asshole too. How about a poll! How many people would be cool with spending 50 bucks for another climber, put in the hardware in a step ass climb, never get thanked for it, then he gives it someone else. WTF!
I truely hope the side taking will cease and/or will not grow. Nobody is going to win.....we both lost.
I'll get my ropes and draws out as soon possible.
Greg,
I'm sorry your deep friendship with Tim has gone bad. I had hoped you could work through your problems privately, rather than post this type of message. I would regret to see your venting diminish the much-deserved high esteem, in which I and others in the climbing community held for you.
Rick
I'm sorry your deep friendship with Tim has gone bad. I had hoped you could work through your problems privately, rather than post this type of message. I would regret to see your venting diminish the much-deserved high esteem, in which I and others in the climbing community held for you.
Rick
Last edited by weber on Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
weber, Don't presume to speak for the whole community. My respect for Greg is not diminished one bit. I mean check this out. Before Muir valley I knew who Greg Martin was, I didn't know Tim Powers. Once the novelty at Muir is over the routes will have to stand for themselves. Attaching a name like Greg Martin to a climb ensures a climber that the route was well thought out and would be time well spent. The routes put up by the others are just that.
Do you like apples? Well, how do you like [b]THEM APPLES[/b]
Greg, I ask you to call me and you did not. How do you know what routes are promised to other climbers. You seem to want to go any where you like. Who asked you to come down to Muir the first time? ME! Who got you your bolts at great price and brought them to you! The is no power trip, I have let most everyone do what they have asked. I have always been nice to you and pay me back by trashing me on the internet, just for denying you to do a route. Maybe calling me to find out why would have been better. You even tried drag me into your tiff with Gregg. You asked to take his project route because he owed you money! I can post the pm if you like. You were asked to put the cables JJ makes on your route, It still is not done. I did tell you not bolt anything more at the solarium, and I have witnesses to that effect. You need to grow up. I also did not make the T shirts jackass, Karla did that. This thread sould die!! Ultra, I am sorry I have not put up any good routes over the years.