tomdarch wrote:Seems to me that if the CEO of a corporation and the guys that he selected for the "mission critical" task of the company failed miserably, that they would accept responsibility and resign.
so if anyone that's hired fails, then the person hiring failed and should be ousted? by that logic, doesn't that mean the voting population of america should be fired since, afterall, we hired bush who, as you're saying, subsequently failed?
i'd say the blame lies a little bit of everywhere and no where: brown might not have been the best for the position, probably plenty of infighting between federal, regional, local officials, miscommunication.. the list goes on. things like this don't occur because just one thing is screwed up. a lot failed, not just one person or one department. one thing i would say to your comparisons with fema under clinton is that at the time fema wasn't under the massive homeland security department. i honestly don't know how much that changed stuff, but i do know that the director of fema no longer speaks with the president directly. in my opinion, added bureaucracy doesn't usually help 1) reaction times 2) efficiency 3) accuracy and efficacy.
and great loves will one day have to part -smashing pumpkins
Paul,
In the Military and elsewhere I'm sure there are a few sayings we use for these
very situations, some you know, some maybe not....
F.U.B.A.R: Fucked up beyond all recognition(it sure is!)
Logistitical nightmare: Exactly what you described above, a whole lot of people doing a whole lot of buck passing now that the ball was dropped.
Cluster fuck: when those who seem in charge are so busy being in charge nothing gets done.
I'm sure I can remember more when I'm more awake, but everybody gets the idea. I believe heads are gonna roll, but for now all energy needs to be directed towards the actual relief efforts.
Gunslnga
at least in the days of feudalism, you had someone to hang/burn/shoot/drag through the city streets when things went wrong.
Obviosly that did'nt work, remembr the Inquisition, the Crusades, all systems based on the power to hurt or kill those who "were wrong" Dont take the easy way out. Instead of using your hands to point fingers or make a fist, use it to lift somebody up or help them out. I'll quote a Martial Arts Sifu I once had, "He said before he could teach me to fight I had to learn how to heal" Yeah I know, thats Confucianic bull to alot of people, made all the difference to me. Thats my 2cents.
Gunslnga
I was holding my tongue....but enough is enough...
Let me give ya'll a little background on FEMA and Hurricane Katrina.
I feel I am qualified, seeing that I WAS THERE for 9 days with boots on the ground.
I am a member of one of the FEMA Urban Search and Rescue teams deployed to the Gulf Coast area. We were one of 6 US&R teams to be pre-deployed (that means, deployed to the area PRIOR to the storm hitting) on Saturday 8/27 (two full days prior to Katrina making land fall). FEMA has been staging assets (rescue teams, food, water, shelter) prior to storms hitting for about 3 years now. Assets for Katrina were staged in Shreveport, LA (for New Orleans) and in Meridian, MS (for the Mississippi coast). We rode the storm out in Meridian and left for the coast as soon as the winds died down enough for us to travel and not be blown off the road.
It took us nearly 8 hours to make a normally 1.5 hour drive to the coast. All highways were closed within 60 miles of the Gulf due to large amounts of debris (large trees, billboards, etc.) that needed to be cleared. We snaked through the State of Mississippi, even driving on the wrong side of interstates and through yards to navigate the debris. We use pick-up trucks and box trucks, so we were able to do this. The FEMA 18-wheelers had to wait until the highways were open. A tractor trailer stuck in the mud does no one any good and only delays the response even longer.
When FEMA shows up at any disaster, we serve at the pleasure of the State we are in. We become “State Assets”. The State Governor or State EMA decides where FEMA is needed, then we deploy (with rescue teams, food, water, etc). When we hit the Gulf Coast on Tuesday, the State of Mississippi already had a grocery list of things that needed to be done. Within 24 hours, everything on that grocery list had been addressed. It is not the job of the Federal Government to do the disaster planning for the states and local jurisdictions. This is to be done PRIOR to the disaster occurring, by the States and local jurisdictions. The Stafford Act, the Federal law that governs disaster response, spells this out clearly. FEMA is just a resource for each state to use when they have exhausted all of their resources. It was obvious that Mississippi’s disaster plans were excellent, and the transition was seamless. The Mississippi National Guard was already on the ground when we arrived, providing security and clearing debris, because the Governor of Mississippi had activated them PRIOR to Katrina making landfall. Not once did we hear any complaints from the residents of Mississippi. They knew it takes time to get the massive amounts of resources in place, and the patience they exhibited was heroic. There was very little looting (only for food and water, which is allowed under Martial Law) and no lawlessness that I witnessed.
Louisiana was a different story. When FEMA showed up, they were expected to solve all of their problems for them when they could have been solved by proper planning. Most of their National Guard was not activated until AFTER the storm. When FEMA had food and water ready for the Superdome, the State told them not to distribute it because they did not want people to stay there. When the rescue teams went to search for people trapped, they were shot at by the fine residents of New Orleans. They also were shooting at and assaulting the relief workers. Thus, for the safety and security of the rescue and relief workers, FEMA pulled all assets out of New Orleans until order could be restored. Residents were told to evacuate on Friday before the storm. Public transportation was available to those who had none. The people you saw at the Superdome and the New Orleans Convention Center were the people who refused to get on the busses out of town. That is their fault, not the government’s.
Within 48 hours of the disaster, every FEMA resource in the continental United States was either in the Gulf Coast region or was on the road headed there. This was the first time in the history of FEMA that this has happened. Dollar wise and destruction wise, this was the largest disaster to ever hit the United States. The locals on the coast told us that this was 3 times the size and scope of Hurricane Camille (1969) and that was thought to be the largest disaster to date.
Pick up any disaster planning pamphlet from FEMA or your local / state EMA. One of the first things it tells you to do is have enough food, water, and basic essentials to supply your family for 72 hours. You have to do that for yourself. The government will not do that for you. It’s called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. It takes that long to get the resources in place to provide for the effected people. Most resources for Katrina were provided within 48 hours to the Gulf Coast. In our “fast food society”, people want things to happen “right now”. Disaster relief will never happen “right now”. If you think you can come up with a better way, more power to you. Tens of thousands of qualified people and local, state, and federal levels have been working on this issue for decades and still can’t come up the “right now” plan. It does not exist. FEMA did nothing different planning for this disaster than they have done for other disasters. The only difference was this was the largest disaster to ever hit the U.S. Unless you have a pretty accurate Magic 8 Ball, no one knows what exactily is going to happen until it actually happens.
If you have any questions or comments about my rant or would like to learn more, fell free to PM me.
The next person that asks me to play "Amazing Grace" again will have a reason for me to play it !!!!!
Pleez, next time someone posts something trueful pleez place a disclaimer for liberals so it doesn't screw up their small minds with facts, liberals hate facts
Heh, just because you were there and actually understand both what's supposed to happen and what did happen you think you're in a better position to point fingers and discuss all elements of the situation than the good people on this board? Surely the kids here have clearly demonstrated by now that they are in the ideal position to provide you with instructions for developing ALL your opinions and morals, for understanding your ethics on every thinkable position, understanding how these things reflect your voting habits, child raising strategies, and efforts for natural disaster preparedness.
Within 48 hours of the disaster, every FEMA resource in the continental United States was either in the Gulf Coast region or was on the road headed there.
While, I appreciate your insight, I have some thoughts on this issue. Does your comment above mean that FEMA has no helicopters or boats? CNN, Fox, etc were able to get in to downtown New Orleans, so why couldn't FEMA bring in some food and water for the people who "chose" to stay in New Orleans? How can anyone make a comment that it necessarily takes days to reach a disaster zone. People swarmed to the trade center in 2001 to conduct rescue efforts almost immediately. There were ways to get food and water and other necessities to the Superdome, but it still didn't happen. There appears to have been incompetence at all levels in the management of disaster relief efforts (not the people on the ground actually doing the rescuing, etc)- especially Brown of FEMA. He is qualified to run horse shows, not major disaster coordination.
I'm an experienced woman; I've been around... well, alright, I might not've been around, but I've been... nearby.
~ Mary Richards (Mary Tyler Moore Show)
